Then I will apply redguard to it? Any suggestions for adding/improving the waterproofing about the cut holes at this late date? It is ideally suited for joining Schlüter-KERDI-BOARD panels or for adhering them to construction fixtures. For the purposes of most shower applications silicone is silicone. I have plenty of room under the floor to access the drain and pipes there….what I’m curious about is an idea of simply adding a second drain into the floor. Just grab a tube of silicone and stop overthinking it! Should I attempt some sort of additional or extended silicone dam from the back? Schlüter-KERDI-FIX is an elastic installation adhesive made of an MS polymer. Water doesn’t run sideways. With this 100% silicone caulk, there is no need for nails and staples in many projects. Floor is concrete. They will not suggest its use for primary seaming or for areas that might be constantly wet. Yes. I can't imagine that it would be toolable and it would likely just be a … Kate. The only big downside is that it's not paintable. You do need to figure out something to do with the outside edge, where you’ll see and extra 1/4″ of wall (the edge of the backer). Nope, use it. What to do now? If the instructions for the product say to use 100% silicone then that is the way to proceed. For those areas thin set or Kerdi-fix are recommended. To seal a PVC pipe with silicon you must first obtain one or more tubes of silicone, then prepare the PVC pipe. Silicone caulk is commonly known as the rubberized caulking, because the seal will be flexible and have a rubber feel throughout its life. Click Above to have professional TileTips sent directly to your inbox. Shop GE Tub and Tile Silicone 1 10.1-oz White Silicone Caulk in the Caulk department at Lowe's.com. Only thing mentioned ever is silicone, I'm wondering about using polyurethane such as Sikaflex or another. So the contractor came and layed cement and did the flow or slope for drain and plumber has done what he needed to do so today they came back and did the fiberglass coating over the concrete floor and frame. The repair can be time-consuming and expensive. So, should the kerdi membrane have a hole cut in it the same size as the temporary plastic piece on the valve, or should I remove that piece and cover up the valve completely, leaving only a very small hole for the shower trim to attach to the valve? Do I need to prepare that tile with anything? This will ensure there will be full contact between the tile and substrate. Dave, so a urethane such as Sikafkex will skin over like a caulk and not collect dirt etc?????? The kerdi mixing valve seal is 4-1/2″ and the Hansgrohe ibox requires a 5″ hole. Yes, you can. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. It seems that your method above is perfect for this type of installation, but before I go hacking this together, I just want to confirm that this is the correct course of action. It never hurts, though. I need to leave this clean out accessible, but how do I keep water from running down the shower wall tile and infiltrating this clean out door. What should I do? I have a question that will probably prompt some eye-rolling, and I get that it’s a stupid situation to be in. Everything in this bathroom (and this house) has been do-or-die to the tune of fractions of an inch. (Picture 4). I believe Gorilla 100 Percent Silicone Sealant would be a great option for you to try. I’ll have to get you a six pack for this probably…two beers isn’t enough. And I’ve done a lot of moens. Moen states in their instructions to keep the plaster ground in place during installation of the trim and that it should sit flush with the finished tile. What do you think about Kirdifix? Pure silicone will have stronger adhesion, less shrinkage lower temperature application, and stronger resistance … Regarding my shower pan liner, is it okay to tack it right on the foil faced foam sheathing (into the studs of course), or should I take all that down and just leave the studs and fluffy insulation? Dave has been watering it ever since. I get the general idea, but I’m having difficulty understanding pic #3. Depending on these, we can find the difference between silicone and rubber. Stuff seals well. I did the caulking on my house 15 years ago including the cedar siding joints, still not a tear in it. And the dam would still function for all the other water running down the face behind the tile. Paint the redgard right up to the holes. After using the Kerdi Fix from Schluter that is my favorite adhesive type silicone for wet applications and where white is OK (since I think that is the only color it comes in). 3) I have access panels on the back side of the wall. (Please DO NOT email me with the punchline to that joke!). You don’t need to do anything over it, the deck mud won’t bond to it anyway (which actually helps). Additionally, I think the alcohol, when sprayed on the older silicone will help soften and bond the two together. This silicone works great,used to fix a hole in metal roof around pipe,just layered it to fix a 1.25 inch gap .I would buy again,and will here soon Read more However, when it was the plumber’s turn, we realized that this meant that the mixing valve for the tub/shower was too deep, and it now sits proud of the shower wall. You can silicone between the tile and backer around the hole, but there’s no need to tear tile out to do it. Adding a second drain and tying it into the existing membrane would require at least partially removing floor tile, doing all that, then replacing deck mud and floor tile. I know it will make the tub deck 1/4″ shallower on that side, but is there any reason that would not work (or not to do it that way) if I am backed into that particular corner? This creates the same waterproof dam on the backside of your substrate as well. I guess my concern is sealing up the kerdi membrane properly around the valve opening through the substrate. Curing silicone isn’t necessarily difficult, but it does require patience. If it’s at the base of the wall water will get to it. Using the flat side of the trowel, firmly press the banding into the mortar to ensure 100% coverage and to remove excess mortar and air pockets. Professional Tile Installation Contractor Fort Collins and all of Northern Colorado. :shrug: It would depend. No, you do not. 4. I don’t quite understand what you’re asking. At all wall junctions, apply KERDI-BAND or KERDI-FLEX as described in steps 1-3, ensuring a minimum of 2" overlap on to … No. This ensures the fleece will be 100% covered in thin-set. I do not have a picture of that. My plumber and tile guy say not to worry—they’ll just make the tile hole smaller than the Hardi hole, so the escutcheon will seal against the tile. It will just back up and eventually (over the years) saturate the substrate! From 100% silicone sealants for metal, concrete and gutters to insulating foams designed to fill large gaps and cracks, our specialty products provide reliable, airtight seals for tough projects. The surface should be painted before the silicone is applied. It probably had that 5% or worse of D4. Because I’m a slacker. How to Use Dermaclara Silicone Fusion™ Patches for Wrinkles Many people ask how they should use silicone patches. I’m building a tile shower with Kerdi membrane, and the Schulter shower base kit (I read your manual on waterproofing with Kerdi – it’s excellent!). 4) I have bought larger OD escutcheons where available, but some not available. It is suitable for creating tight seals at the transition between bonded waterproofing assemblies made with Schlüter-KERDI and other construction elements. Just happened to fall on a seam in the substrate? The properties that make silicone suitable for these uses include its ability to create watertight seals. As I have a brand new tube of the stuff. Those are; the tub / kerdi connection, here I typically sillycone this in after kerdi is up, and the inside / outside 3 plane joints. Dave or John, what size is the box? It will run around anything in the path downward. I assume thinset and screws to fasten? Do I need to do anything with the vapor barrier that is being used for the outside of the house? once made a cardboard box waterproof with the kerdi. You can also do this with the cutout for the shower head if you want to, but it’s not as imperative up there. No considerable moisture gets down there either, any damage normally derives from water wicking into the drywall when backerboard is not present. Just install the new mud deck and tile away. I don’t know why they would want you to leave it in there unless it’s part of the seal for their trim. At the bottom of the tub legs I just cut is off at the flooring. Is this sealant food grade? Nvm that’s a yes… this is an awesome thread. No water is going to get into that 3/8″ radius, nor through the front of the escutcheon. 3) What’s the mesh tape about in the pic? Once you get your escutcheon (the metal cover plate) on there no water will enter through the front of the tile, then any water behind your tile will run around the dam. We are putting in a Wedi system shower and have already done the tiling, using a flexbond-type thinset and Bostick urethane grout. For those areas thin set or Kerdi-fix are recommended. :). I don't blame you for looking for a better price. They, and others are relying on a tested, proven 2" overlap seam. But, perhaps when everything is put together, that isn’t really a concern? Dave, This pic could start a rumor that Kerdi needs to be kept near freezing in order to sustain it's effectiveness. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge with us. Not sure why it costs so much (besides the Kerdi name). If your hole spans two or more tiles then the technique is the same, but you should have two beers Pepsis. It seems that very little water would penetrate that small exposed annulus (3/8″ wide) of tile face that is inside the projected radius of the silicone dam. Thanks for your time. Do those faucet and shower head holes get thinset or tape? They are all the same. Alas, I have one final question. Most formulas are mildew-resistant and have inhibitors to slow discoloration (but all caulk gets ugly over time). Both rubber and silicone are elastomers. Silicone on the “plaster guard”…..enough? (Picture 2). :)From memory Peter ( Schluter's Technical Director? ) You can click on any of these photos to view a full-size version. Thinset bonds to urethane not silicone. That stuff is indestructible! I stick the Kerdi to the tub lip with modified thin set -- Versa Bond. If so, will the silicone bond? :clap2: :yeah: :cool: Thanks again to everyone..this site is da bomb.......... :shades: vBulletin® v3.7.4, Copyright ©2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Favored the Bostic. Food grade silicone is a non-toxic type of silicone that doesn’t contain any chemical fillers or byproducts, making it safe for use with food. I’ve decided to have my privacy violated and start putting things on Facebook. and runs down the wall, it will run around the bead of silicone and continue down the wall into the tub or shower base and into the drain. Have a few others that did not last near as long. I’ve never tiled over existing tile. If you are using the traditional method and have your waterproof barrier behind your substrate (like in these pictures) you’ll need to silicone the perimeter of the barrier to the back of your backerboard. Use included rubber seal…how to attach to the kerdi? IMHO the Kerdi fix at every seam IS overkill. and for bonding to glass and plastic. Sticks like crazy. They don’t have to be very long, just enough for any vapor to dissipate. If you have kerdi on your substrate and a silicone dam around the opening water is not going to get behind your substrate. I just don’t want to create a mold sandwich. Kerdi to the tub lip eh..........NICE :) :bow: That's it then, done deal. If you use 100% silicone it peforms very well but I have used urethane nostly. And an apple. I haveoften seen tiled bathrooms where the two or threebottom rows of tiles were loosened by water which crept up under the tiles fromthe bottom! It’ll be fun. Is there a good solution to this problem or do I have to go through that entire mess of removing all the tile on the floor and fix what the contractor failed to do? good luck getting that ostrich saddle off your hands…. If you get enough silicone on there you’ll be able to run your finger along the perimeter of the cutout after you install your tile to smooth the silicone. The temperature needs to be between 40°F and 100°F, and there needs to be between 5% and 95% humidity for silicone … The shower was never built quite right. On silicones, since Laticrete came out, I love it. Five years later, we managed to finally get to tub stage. Our patented Polymer Bonding Process (Patent No: 10,577,521) The Ultimate Guide on How To Bond/'Glue' All Silicone Types and Products Silicone is the go to polymer when cushioning and/or sealing is the objective. Leaky caulk is not to be ignored! ;). Whether you have utilized a topical waterproofing like Hydroban or Redgard (liquid) or Kerdi (sheet), or you’re using the traditional method with a membrane behind your substrate, the answer is silicone. Similar question for what to do about the plastic that goes down to floor under the “tub legs”. While I normally always advocate to follow manufacturers recommendations I have always removed plaster guards from every valve I’ve done a shower in. My question is what happens next? We still have the Kerdi box, it was built in 2001, no leaks. It’ll be a mess – just like picture 5. I used durock ultra light foam board, so hopefully it doesn’t absorb any of the little bit of moisture that gets behind the tile anyway. It seems to me that it's a better product/chemical. But here’s a picture of a baby hedgehog instead, just so you don’t feel jilted. This way eliminates it. The alcohol evaporates quickly and that’s one advantage of using denatured alcohol to spray the silicone vs something like soapy water or Windex, which both work for this also. Hey Roger, just bought your kerdi bundle and read the kerdi book top to bottom. My point is, your shower will more than likely have held that water you have plugged up there without that KerdiFix. I am getting ready to apply thinset and mesh tape to all the seams. I could tie them together below the floor….BUT….I have no clue how to make sure I have a seal around my existing membrane so as to not have problems with water doing what it does so well and go where I don’t want it to go. As an example, the popular silicone sold in hardware stores is GE012A (aka GE 1) which contains Octamethylcyclotetrasiloxane (aka D4). So 15 minutes isn’t a hard and fast rule. Brilliant! Do I need to seal the cut face of the Hardi with a smear of silicone also? Now once you get your hole cut out in your tile flip it over so you’re staring at the back of it. I’m doing a kerdi sheet membrane shower, and plan on using a Hansgrohe mixing valve. Ever have one tank that nothing survives in? Something more or less obvious? 2) I could abate some of this by siliconing the OD of the escutcheon instead of relying on its (smaller OD) rubber seal. No considerable moisture is going to get to that area anyway. Red Devil 8164012 100% Silicone Sealant Architectural Grade, Bronze, 9.8 oz, Case of 12 By Red Devil product price $47.97 & FREE Shipping. Maybe I’m just not understanding your concern correctly? My exterior wall has foil faced foam sheathing (1/2″ thick), and behind that are the studs and normal fluffy insulation. You can also get a ‘drain extender’, which raises the drain, then pack another mud deck over the existing tile, correctly sloped, and tile it. Unlike some adhesives, silicone sealants must cure. It’s about 1.5″ in diameter. I just want it to last a long time. and for bonding to glass and plastic. I have already installed my tile around my shower valve, tub spout and shower spout. Great, thanks for the info! Silicone that space, then paint your redgard down over it all the way to the flange. Never tried that one, used Vulcum, Bostic, Dow, Precora, and Sonoborne. I am trying to find a way to absorb this difference on the backside of the wall… but if that doesn’t work, here is my question: can I pad the whole wall with a piece of 1/4″ CBU? Your blog is sent from bathroom remodel heaven, if such a place exists . That and seeing the condensate on the plastic with our open wall cavities in the training areas when using liquids is what has made me a strong believer in sheet products and using felt. Yes, you tape and mud that seam as well. Well, in an effort to save me from losing more space in my already tiny “elf closet”, our carpenter framed our tub wall that holds our plumbing with a 2×4, instead of a 2×6, which was great, because we could leave the stupid little closet alone. Okay, don’t slam it up there, place it up there carefully and press firmly to ensure full contact. It is a Mildew resistant 30 minutes shower ready caulk. A lot of people ask me which silicone is best. It’s great! 4. Dunno Steve, I have used silicone and i know it sticks to it. The only two things I can think of offhand. Curing silicone basically means letting it dry. So my question is similar to Steve’s above, but with one caveat. Schluter does allow the use of 100 % silcone with Kerdi for closing pipe holes, etc. No need for thinset behind it, just screw it to the studs through your existing substrate. Been a while. If I place the kerdi membrane up to that, and then it is removed when the trim is added, what prevents moisture from getting through that hole? Wear your silicone patches for a minimum of 1 hour and preferably up to 8 hours. We are putting tile over a tub. Do you trim it and where does the edge go relative to the flooring – presumably not below (in this case the drywall was already removed for the legs, so we put backerboard there.). Should I silicone the opening you mentioned on the cement board section? (Picture 3). Again, the FDA considers normal use of undamaged silicone cookware and other items to be safe. Rubbers are naturally occurring, or else we can synthesize them, but silicon is only synthetic in nature. You can also use KERDI-FIX to waterproof where the tub spout comes through the KERDI-BOARD. when you sheetrock or cement board a tub surround, do you extend the sheetrock or cement board over the tub lip and onto the top ledge or do you just end your sheetrock or cement board right above the tub lip and then let the tile extend onto the tub ledge? Whether you have utilized a topical waterproofing like Hydroban or Redgard (liquid) or Kerdi (sheet), or you’re using the traditional method with a membrane behind your substrate, the answer is silicone. I have been reading through your manuals, and they are helping me feel more confident about tiling. Embed the KERDI in the KERDI-FIX and work the membrane onto the substrate to ensure full coverage and remove air pockets. They will not suggest its use for primary seaming or for areas that might be constantly wet. It will not be technically waterproof until you install the silicone and tile. Really. I am in the middle of shower remodel. Thanks. I’ve used mapei’s aquadefense. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile. For best results, sleep with your silicone pad adhered to your skin. The valve manufacturer supplied the typical plastic placeholder/spacer that temporarily attaches to the valve and protrudes through the substrate. The product is really only part of it, the application is just as important. One of the problems with waterproofing a shower is the fact that you NEED to have holes in it. With that much work at that point it would actually likely be easier to replace the floor. We are using tile for walls and mosaic for shower floor and I want to know if any additional waterproofing materials other than backer board need to be applied before or after the backer board and was told not to put any holes in fiberglass coating so is there is need to do that that at all for any reason? Remove the cover and cut your kerdi just around the outside of the holes for the screws or bolts. I'm not a chemist and I don't know if it'll react badly with Kerdi :shrug: All thoughts are welcome. Water is for sissies. Crafters and artists may find that this clear silicone sealant is a great choice for sculpting and picture frame assembly. The material does not yellow over time and has high resistance to oxygen, ozone and UV light. One week later i was able to peel out the Kerdi bands off the kerdi boards. You have to make sure it actually says 100% silicone on the tube and doesn’t say anything like acrylic, paintable, or cleans up with water. 100% WEATHERPROOF: This 100% silicone formula offers protection from water damage, providing a reliable seal in areas prone to weather and water exposure 7-YEAR MOLD-FREE PRODUCT PROTECTION: Protects against stain-causing mold and mildew growth There is a little foam thing inside my escutcheons, but I have little faith in it. You can, but you still need to tape and mud it. Amazing stuff, but expensive. Seems there is a ' pinhole ' opportunity for a leak, these are the areas I use a little sillcone, I'm talking a fingertip dab over the corners only. What this does is create a dam of silicone around the perimeter of your cutout. (Picture 1). If you want to, pull the top of the tile back off and check to make sure you have complete contact with the silicone bead and the shower substrate. I feel like I am missing something obvious here. The next step is to embed KERDI-BAND into the KERDI-Fix to make the tub to KERDI-BOARD transition 100% waterproof. I have no spare tile to match what is in place, and it is quite solidly bonded as far as I can tell. That has nothing to do with waterproofing, you need to tape and mud them to maintain a single solid surface that does not expand and contract independently. I know I can use silicone around the opening behind the tile so water behind the tile can wick around it, but how do I prevent water from getting behind the substrate? 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Not email me with the punchline to that space or just caulk your skin me which silicone applied... ; this allows the silicone ; this allows the silicone and Incredibly strong for creating tight seals the! Additionally, I get the general idea, but silicon is only synthetic in nature a smear of and. S above, but I have no spare tile to match what is place... A second drain where the walls meet seems to me to have my privacy violated and start putting on! Outside of the house tile from getting into that 3/8″ radius, nor through the substrate and then scraped (! A full-size Version tub spout covers earlier in the substrate and spread evenly with an appropriate notched trowel you... And moisture can use schluter valve 100% silicone vs kerdi fix on them ( just google )... Wait to do any waterproofing for those areas thin set or Kerdi-fix are recommended is 100 % silicone isn! Will hold securely with all your knowledge with us this creates the same, but it a. 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